now on this deal the guy recived the cards on monday
the 13 of august, and he promised to ship priority,
(seeing as he said he recived the cards on tuesday,
wednsday) i cannot see how it would take a week for
the cards to arrive to me! as i am writing this on
Thurday more then a week after he claimed to have sent
to me, and a day away from marking 2 weeks from me
having sent.

I belive that even if he does me to send my mox to me,
or even send my cards back to me as a sort of "pay
back" then he has some serious bad trading edicate and
deserves to be one this board.

I did attempt to work out the problem with Keith
before posting on this board and as you can see by the
email i gave him a warning (not the first he recived
either).
__________________
ok i am always looking for more ppl to talk to so feel free to im me any time i should be awake except maybe 2 am or so =^-^= my virtual kitty

IM:meoWMIXhiss
ICQ:11581951

I want chicken, I want liver I want meowmix plz deliver
Valmtg is my godess!SHE IS THE GODDESS THE GIRL AND THE BEST!


[Edited 1 times, lastly by meowmix2.0 on August 23, 2001]

kaos360@hotmail.com

and his motl name is

kaosNMU

that is also his aim name

__________________
If a man cannot see we call him blind.
If he cannot hear we call him deaf.
If he cannot speak we call him mute.
So what do you call someone that cannot smell?

valmtg says he is "lucky"

1. I have recieved the cards we traded for my Mox Jet
2. I sent my Mox Jet insured, and certified mail knowing full well that when he claimed not to have recieved it I could still get the $200 worth of insurance I put on it
3. Then, because I went out of town for 2 days, he has a FRIEND put me on the bad traders list, which is unethical in the first place. To be placed on this list because a BANNED member asked his buddy to do so.
4. The Mox is in his posession and he knows it, I even sent him an email which can be forwarded to anyone who wants proof, that if he did not recieve it, which I am sure he did, than I would send back his cards or send him another mox.
5. I am unjustly put on this list and wish for any complaints or ?'s to be emailed directly to me.
6. My lawyer is available with shipping documents scanned and pictures of the Mox being put into the envelope and sent. I went through this trouble knowing well that this guy is shady and would do this.

Keith Hagerty
kaos_360@hotmail.com (NOT kaos_369 as is stated in the complaint against me)
AIM: KaosNMU

just keep me outta this thank u.

__________________
ok i am always looking for more ppl to talk to so feel free to im me any time i should be awake except maybe 2 am or so =^-^= my virtual kitty

IM:meoWMIXhiss
ICQ:11581951

He sent on Friday, the Mox was stolen from me that very same day, i lent it to a friend and it was stolen from him, the guy allowed me to take what i wanted form his binder, stuff like good foils, and a library, i offered any of this stuff Keith wanted, but he just wanted his cards back.

Now as you can see from the evidance, i asked for tracking number many diffrent times, but he wont give it to me. I also find it odd that he would send this email to me:

James,
No, I am not getting you back. And yes I did send the Mox and if it
does
not arrive I will send another one. I am not out to rip off anyone. I
am
in the middle of a residence change and trying to keep all of my small
personal life details such as this trade in order is a bit hectic.
However,I
have not forgotten or am not avoiding you. I intend full well to see
that
you get the mox. I am not a bad trader and should not be branded as
such.
I am trying to dig up the certified mail reciept that is around
somewhere,
then I will let you know wht is going on. Either way, you wont get
ripped
off..

Thanks,
Keith

and then turn around and post what he did on the bta, i find that he is just mad becasue i actually found a way to get him on this list.

He still refuses to send me the tracking number. I find this very odd becasue he claims to have scans of all the paper work involved.

He was always the "nice guy" to me until his name showed up on this list. he also claims to have not responded becasue he is moving.

__________________
If a man cannot see we call him blind.
If he cannot hear we call him deaf.
If he cannot speak we call him mute.
So what do you call someone that cannot smell?

valmtg says he is "lucky"

If Keith sent when he says he did, the package would have been there already, now it would have been understandable that the post office may have not sent James a slip saying it was down at the post office, but when he called today they told him there was nothing down at the post office (and he asked stating the exact name that should have been on the package, James Elliott the second [title would have been either II, 2, or 2nd]).

Furthure more, Keith the guy who was supposed to send priority has a lame excuse about not wanting to have delivery confirmation becasue it would cause him to lose his insurance if James says he did not recived the package. I mean isnt that what delivery confimation does? Stops the guy from pulling anything like that!

The last point is the number Keith gave to James. I belive he intentinally told James it was a delivery confirmation number because he assumed there was no way to confirm it was or was not a Certified mail number. The number was 3780608962259975 now James asked about this number this morning when he called the Belfair post office. IT IS NOT ACERTIFIED MAIL NUMBER, its a delivery confirmation number that has not been used yet.

__________________
If a man cannot see we call him blind.
If he cannot hear we call him deaf.
If he cannot speak we call him mute.
So what do you call someone that cannot smell?

valmtg says he is "lucky"

From: "Keith Hagerty" <kaos_360@hotmail.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
To: manaman70@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Uneccessary
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:33:14 -0400

Sure thing buddy, you do what you want. I have the receipts, and if
you
file a compaint which you can if you want, I have what I need for them.
Plus, I offered to send back your cards or send another mox, and you
dicked
me around. I SENT! Get it, ****ing sent! You claim what you want,
file
complaints I dont care.. I have proof, I attempted to offer it to you.
The
number I gave you is directly off the receipt I read it from. That is
the
only # on there and so it is what you were given. And since you
already
listed me as a bad trader, what possible retribution do I have, NONE!
So, I
will take the mail fraud charge and eat it up with my proof. Or, like
I
offered A MILLION ****ING TIMES I will send ANOTHER Mox Jet since you
seem
to be out to rip me off for some reason. If it comes to sending back
your
cards, I will send you what you sent me, the proxy millstone, and the
FOIL
Rage with the boil on the picture. You can dispute what you want, but
it is
what you sent. So go ahead and be an *******, you arent helping
matters. I
was civil in tounge and action until you went and became rude.

>From: James Elliott <manaman70@yahoo.com>
>To: Keith Hagerty <kaos_360@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Uneccessary
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
>
>you say i have a shady character, well you are the one
>with the shady character.
> I sent first knowing how i had casue you trouble, i
>never should have lent out the mox. I have done
>nothing deserving of the way you described me, if you
>want to talk about paper for a slanderous chracter, i
>have a impecable charater, better then yours in other
>words, and i have not lies multiple times during the
>course of this trade. THE BALLS YOU HAVE TO SAY I HAVE
>THE SHADY CHARACTER!!!!!!!! THAT MORE THEN ANYTHING
>ELSE HAS MADE ME MAD ABOUT THIS, you say im lying and
>yet the whole time it was you that was lying!
>
>
>DONT give me that **** about you having slips now, i
>know for a fact that if i wanted to i could make my
>self a slip out of the one i have now (the one i got
>when i sent to you) that says i sent some thing some
>where! (if your good enough you could use pain to make
>it, i would look alittle ****ty, but hey you can blame
>it on the scanner [that wasnt able to scan your mox,
>yeah right!])
>
>I called the post office, not only has a package from
>you not arrived since the last one (and the lady i
>talked to rembers that one, becasue of all the times
>she was asked to return it to sender) but the number
>you gave me was bogus. its not a certified mail
>number. So no more lies, just send me back my stuff,
>and dont try sending me that carpy **** you say you
>got, i dont want your proxy millstone, i want my real
>one, and i dont want a foil urzas rage with a "zit" on
>it i want the one that i know i sent to you.
>
>In other words send me back my stuff and i may drop
>the matter, and forget about making a complaint for
>mail fraud with you, and i will be opening any package
>with many witness in front that can sign & notorize
>papers saying what they saw come out of the package.
>
>
>Belive me when i say (and you have no reason not to im
>not the guy who just got caught lying for the 4th
>time) I value any thing you say at zero, you have not
>intergrity left with me, you can say what you want but
>when i made that phone call this morning you lost the
>last fragment of your integrity with me. Everything
>that comes out of your mouth i will take as if it was
>yet another lie, and will treat it as such until it
>proves its self to be true.
>
>
>--- Keith Hagerty <kaos_360@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > James,
> > I sent the cards in a fashion other than priority
> > for a reason, because I
> > know you to be a shady character. I sent them
> > registered mail, which is all
> > that is required to ship with insurance. I do have
> > the numbers from the
> > insurance slip, and the #'s off of the certified
> > sticker they stuck on the
> > outside of the package. I did send one mox, and was
> > intending on replacing
> > your cards or sending another mox until you took a
> > very rude step and
> > decided to place me on the bad traders list. Once
> > again, as with dealing
> > with you tends to cause, my lawyer is going to get
> > together the proof that I
> > sent, along with a slander of charcter charge, and
> > mail you the papers. I
> > find it convienent that you lose two Moxen James.
> > You are a very rude
> > person and quite inappropriately placed me on the
> > Bad Traders list because I
> > was out of town for two days and was unable to reply
> > to your attempt at a
> > warning message. I was much more civil in dealing
> > with you, I never
> > attempted to slander your character by placing you
> > the list, even though it
> > took a month to get my cards back. You are out of
> > line to say the least,
> > and now we get to go throught the loops to prove
> > that I am in the right and
> > you in the wrong. My name will end up good, and
> > yours hopefully not so
> > since you have taken it upon yourself to ruin my
> > name on MOTL. Please feel
> > free to contact my lawyer, I believe you should
> > still have his # as I know
> > that I kept every single email of ours and have each
> > detail of your
> > scamming.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > >From: James Elliott <manaman70@yahoo.com>
> > >To: Keith Hagerty <kaos_360@hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Got em'
> > >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >all right it is now wednsday you recived the cards
> > on
> > >MONDAY OF LAST WEEK, seeing as how you where
> > supposed
> > >to ship priority (and i dont see you sending a mox
> > any
> > >other way) you will be going onto the bad traders
> > list
> > >tomarrow unless one of three things happens:
> > >
> > >1. you agree to send me back my cards, And pay to
> > >cover my shipping costs (as was promised anyway, if
> > i
> > >got the cards to you by monday) and add in a little
> > >something becasue you used the cards (its been over
> > a
> > >week there is no way you can convince me you didnt
> > use
> > >any of the cards)
> > >
> > >2. I have the mox in my hand before I talk to
> > someone
> > >about them putting you one the bad traders list.
> > >
> > >3. You give me the tracking number, and it showes
> > you
> > >having shiped the cards out a week ago, just the
> > post
> > >office messed everything up, and it is in no way
> > your
> > >fault that the mox is not here yet.
> > >
> > >--- Keith Hagerty <kaos_360@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I never said I shipped Tuesday, but I have sent
> > the
> > > > Mox and I will send you
> > > > the tracking # when I find the piece of paper
> > again.
> > > > I will look for it in
> > > > a little bit.

(I hope the filters catch all the cussing in the post)

__________________
If a man cannot see we call him blind.
If he cannot hear we call him deaf.
If he cannot speak we call him mute.
So what do you call someone that cannot smell?

valmtg says he is "lucky"

When I snet him the Email i asked him to provide some kinda prove that he did infact send to James, and he said

quote:

---

From an Email By Keith to my Email Addy (MagicJunkie82@yahoo.com):
Sorry, I didnt list it as in mail. But it is, and I did send it. I cant provide a tracking #, because all I have is a certified mail receipt. I did not send with delivery confirmation, which I know regret. And what do you want me to prove to you?

---

Which has lead both of use to belive that he has stoped responding.

I think James really did lose out on this one, and he cant even get the guy banned (it will do no good) i think that the guy really its moving and so if he is banned it wont matter in a week he will be back online with a new name, and a new address.

__________________
If a man cannot see we call him blind.
If he cannot hear we call him deaf.
If he cannot speak we call him mute.
So what do you call someone that cannot smell?

valmtg says he is "lucky"

Name: James Michael Elliott II (second)
Nickname: manaman70
Email Address: manaman70@yahoo.com
Address:
241 E Alderwood Rd.
Belfiar, WA 98528

anyone that wants it here is the link to the trouble with those guys.

http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001572.html

here is an email i recived from one of the three that has been harrasing me since this happend. They sent me trash cards, stupid foil commons and uncommons, they had no evidance becasue they did do this, and how can fingerprints on cards be fake evidance! you sent them now your not sure if you have or have not touched the cards that why you never persued it furthur, you just think that by harrassing me, and talking bad about me every chance you get that will in some way make up for the fact that you mad becuase you didnt rip me off. This also has my reply on it.

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Elliott <manaman70@yahoo.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: You ****ing ripper!
To: Josh Rego <regoism@yahoo.com>

what do you mean rip off 2 people in the same way? I
have had problems with 2 people that is true. the
first person i had problems with didnt send me what he
was supposed to. That was an attempted rip on his
part, this is the one i am sure you are most familiar
with.

The second person is right now on the motl BTA board.
I am now pretty sure he sent the package, and the
reason for the lack of comunitaction and the rudness
on his part is stress and the recent passing of a
family member, I am waiting still waiting for his card
to arrive, I am assuming that his first one was lost
in the mail, and he can check back on an insured
package to see if it arrived, i mean the post office
has to be able to check on that for when people file
complaints (which Keith is going to his mox was
insured for $200).

All in all my point is your stupid, you should really
get more information on what is happening before you
stat mouthing off, now please dont disturbe me again
and i am going email this message, and this reply to
the motl Moderator inca, along with the names of you
fellow motl member. I will tell him of how much you
have been harrasing me. BTW I SENT FIRST TO HIM AND HE
GOT MY CARDS I AM NOW WAITING FOR THE MOX TO ARRIVE
BEFORE I ATTEMPT ANYTHING TO MAKE UP FOR THE FACT THAT
THE MILLSTONE WAS A PROXY, THAT I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT!

--- Josh Rego <regoism@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What's up? Oh, by the way, we all know you are
> a ripper now! Why the hell would you rip two people
> off in the same way? Did you think that we wouldn't
> talk to each other? This sheds some great light on
> your ****ing situation! It takes a certain degree
> of stupidity to generate such an idiotic plan! Good
> luck getting yourself out of this one, you son of a
> bitch!

I get a message or an im at least one a day when I log on. Mostly name calling from the from this one.

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:08:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Elliott <manaman70@yahoo.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Facts!
To: Keith Hagerty <kaos_360@hotmail.com>

Vulgar i may have been for a few messages, but I was
given reason to jump to conclusions. I mean you
really did not answer most of my questions.

But maybe I did act a little hastaly, I can see why
you would not tell me that you where moving, I mostly
would not have done the deal with you (or at least not
have sent first, until i could prove that you where in
fact moving to that address) And i admit, I am having
a hard time beliving that you sent, But it is possible
in fact its probly likly, I assume since you couldnt
give me a scan of that Certified Mail slip That you
didnt have it in your hand (your father was the on
that has it right? with all the other evidance that
you sent) well maybe you should double check the
address you sent it to.. The Post office dosent
usually lose insured items.

If you where so worried that i would say i didnt
recive the mox (unless you where worried that i would
say there wasnt a mox in there) You dont have to worry
about any claim of that nature... I mean unless i had
opened it in front of witness (and they had signed
saying exactly what they saw in the package) It would
simply be your word against mine. Im sure you father
is a respected lawyer and so all you would have to do
was have him and another person witness you seal the
envelope and drop it off at the post office

About me saying i didnt recive it, If you sent
delivery confimation and The post office says I got
it, then i could say all i want on Motl it wouldnt
matter! they would take one look at your scaned
delivery confimation receipt and check the number, and
they would tell me to get lost (even if it was stolen
out of the mail box after it was delivered... it
wouldnt matter, becuase you kept your end of the
bargian, you sent and it got to me.

I dont Rip People off. I never have, and I never will.
Its a simple as that.

I'm sorry I did get mad at you, no matter what i
should have given you the benifit of the doubt. But it
was the post you left on the motl board that really
got me mad.. I still dont get how you can say i have a
shady character when i have never once lied to you!
The boil was not on the foil urza's rage. If the
millstone was a proxy im sorry, I did not know. I
would like to just worry about one thing at a time,
and I am worried about losing out on this deal. as
soon as i get the mox in hand we can talk about what
to do with the proxy millstone (and its is only a $5
card, the mox is a $120 card)

It was the fact that you streight up lied to me that
got me mad, lead me to belive that you belived i had
lost the Mox and i did. You should have told me you
didnt quite trust me. I still would have sent, and i
sent first anyway.

"and of course as soon as they showed up to have
arrived he suddenly lost an Alpha Mox Ruby

1. I have recieved the cards we traded for my Mox Jet
2. I sent my Mox Jet insured, and certified mail
knowing full well that when he claimed not to have
recieved it I could still get the $200 worth of
insurance I put on it
3. Then, because I went out of town for 2 days, he has
a FRIEND put me on the bad traders list, which is
unethical in the first place. To be placed on this
list because a BANNED member asked his buddy to do so.
4. The Mox is in his posession and he knows it, I even
sent him an email which can be forwarded to anyone who
wants proof, that if he did not recieve it, which I am
sure he did, than I would send back his cards or send
him another mox.
5. I am unjustly put on this list and wish for any
complaints or ?'s to be emailed directly to me.
6. My lawyer is available with shipping documents
scanned and pictures of the Mox being put into the
envelope and sent. I went through this trouble knowing
well that this guy is shady and would do this."

I mean how would you feel if you had been nothing but
honest with a person, and you had assumed they had
been nothing but honest with you, then they turn
around and post something like that, The opposite of
everything they had been telling you up to that point.

All in all i dont want you to read to far into what im
saying, its not an insult, its not a threat, its sorta
an apology and an expinlation all in one.

I did in fact not recive, and im tired of trying not to upset anyone. I am going to tell it streight. Matt and his buddys tried to rip me off. They failed baddly so they are mad at me now every chance they get they try to make my life bad. I was banned during my dealings with them, i got a bad feeling so i didnt simul, got there cards posted them on the BTA and I WAS BANNED NOT THEM? The only thing i did worng was not simul send.

So then i get to my dealings with Keith and i never got his stupid card becasue he dosent do what he says he is going to do its in no way my faul!! yet he still trys to make it like its my falut! he got my stuff and refuses to make sure my stuff gets to me then when it dosent get to me he tells me that since he has proof he sent but i dont have proof that i didnt recive (not that he has proof that i didnt recive) that if im rude to him he isnt going to send another (like him sending automaticaly makes me have it, it wasnt teleported into my house you know!) But he will still collect the insurance! Screw all of this I never got it, i missed out on my deal! this saturday was my last chance to make it, it did include that jet! Not that i think keith really cares (he may say he does) His duty in sending is to make sure it gets to me. Well Keith it didnt and i dont really care about being rude now im to frustrated, I have deleted the whole of the last text and posted this new message. I dont care if you sent Since i never got it and your going to claim the insurance you might as well have never sent it. hell why are you so mad i mean in the end your going to collect $200 in insurance and buy a new mox for as much as $150 so you should be happy i didnt get it i mean you made money!!!!!! But then i also here from mknofx (the other guy that annoys me all the time) that keith is on his side, and is going to be giving him pictures etc. Keith says the are not working on a court case togeather, he says they are (for some strange reason im inclinde to belive Keith).

Keith is also telling the other guy stuff like how he distrusts me! well if you distrust me it dosnet matter what i say, and this playing nice to you, the guy who lost a mox that was one its way to me simply because he didnt want to send how promised, they guy who cost me the deal that would have completed my deck i have been working on for OVER ONE YEAR! the guy that keeps telling me to "bring on a court case". the guy who can use "im not going to send if your rude" and "im going to collect the insurance" in the same sentance and not think there is something wrong with that. The guy who is not going to send because he thinks his duty as a sender ends when he sets the package in the mail box, well if it dose THEN IM ENTITLED TO THE DAMN INSURANCE MONEY!

Im Just so furstraded at this, i went from mad to upset to sad, now im back to mad! well screw it all. I just want waht im owed no more no less!

and im not making lite of this matter, just when I came back on with the intention of trading again My thoughts where along the lies of "i was banned for posting violations, from what i saw 2 of them were over a year old, and now leashrac the only person i can talk to about it wont even respond to my emails. and for all i know he is just deleting them when he gets them, well then i will just join again, give my self the good name i had again get my referances back again and continue on like i had never even saw that stupid name Clkboa on my h/w list"

but now i wont even be able to do that. If i get the mox or not Keith and clkboa and his buddys should be happy as now i will probly get ip banned, and never be able to come back, thanks I have already lost more then this deal would have been worth (and thats if i even get the mox out of this).

quote:

---

Originally posted by clkedboa:
wow this is pretty odd. On both of the BTA's that james has posted...he has claimed that he never got the cards that we sent. Also...in the beggning of this he claimed that keith sent him foil lands (the same claim he made against me) but now he changes his story to that "it got lost in the mail"...

---

I would LOVE if you could quote the area your talking about, i went back and read the WHOLE POST in an attempt to see if I made even the vaguest refernace to foil lands (even so much to say "and the reason i didnt pick up the package at the post office and return it to Keith was that for all I know it may have been stuffed with foil lands") In fact the only time the word foil appears in this topic is when I say I sent 2 FOIL URZA'S RAGE to Keith

quote:

---

Originally posted by clkedboa:
well we're not going to be able to see that u said nething bout foil lands now because i can see that u've edited all of your posts...obviously taking the parts out.

---

the last time I edited was on 28AUG01

The first time you made that claim was on 04sep01

BIG TIME DIFFRENCE THERE DUDE!

Ground you have no right to post on here, in fact Celkboa and his "friends" have very little right to post on this topic, and im sure if Inca was around (not going to be back until monday) he would say the same thing. Celkboa is claiming to have the right to post on here by saing that the bta about him and Kieth are the same. But he is wrong. Anyone can go an read the two topics (made quite long by Celkboas whinning about not being able to rip me off. Made even longer becasue he had his "friends" pose as people that had the same thing happen to them, then post about how I said something like "man I think matts dumb, and call it evidance!" even Celkboa said "this is the second time someone as said they didnt recive the right stuff from me."

Pretty stupid of him to say that if you ask me. OH and you should have seen his fist email to me, it was an open and direct threat, that also said "well i think you should still ahve to send, you entered into a written agreement, and you broke it therefore I have the right to file mail fraud charges against you," and latter he said something to the effect of "It dosent matter what you got we had a written agreement to send, and you broke that, so if you dont send im going to claim, mail fraud charges." after telling him he was wrong, and that if he wanted me to send I was going to do the same thing to him and send a land to him. He told me that all of the sudden all him and his buddys moms were lawyers, and had there own firm and stuff and he didnt care how much it cost he was going to prosecute me, he said "my mom has already started on papers." But this isnt the topic for this, which is why you and your buddys are not supposed to be posting here.

Ground, hey I still have the foils I recived from them in a plastic bag, and I can get them fingerprinted, I am also going to keep them in there for 10 years if need me. Its got them wondering dosent it? They are not 100% sure they did now touch the cards in question, so they havent filed charges.

I was banned becasue I delt with them, and you dont see me out there posting on everytopic they post on, and harrasing them everyday, messing up there deals. I could care less I didnt lose anything except 22 referances, and my name, and now becasue of Keith my ability to use motl.

NOW KEITH I KNOW YOU WHERE ONLINE, I HAVE MORE THEN ONE SCREEN NAME, AND YOU HAD BANNED MY GUMPPA99 AIM NAME. I KNOW YOU HAD A GOOD LONG TIME TO ANSWER MY EMAIL. YOU HAVE FAILD TO DO THAT, IT IS INCREADBLY SIMPLE TO EMIAL THE SCANS OF THE RECEPTS TO ME, OR *GASP* COULD IT BE YOU DONT HAVE THEM.

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Originally posted by Ground:
do you belive everything you see on T.V. and going to copy Eddie Murrphy in Beverly hills Cop and use super glue in a fish tank so i just want to know lol

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LOL you do know that actually works, of course it was quite odd about the finger print in that movie (there was only one, and it was perfect!). The Chemicals in the glue Fumes stick the oils that make up the fingerprint, you know the same oils that casue the dust to make the fingerprint when you dust for fingerprints.

ALSO I KNOW YOUR A FIREND OF CELKBOA, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, but do you think you can keep your insane remarks to your self, and you do know what the definition of insanity is right? ohhh you dont? well there is a dictionary on online, there should be one on the computer, and there is always the library. But I think i will tell you the definition of insantiy is repeting the same thing over and over again expecting diffrent results, Celkboa and his friends keep saying "wahhh we didnt rip you off, now send us cards for free, I mean we actually PAID $1.25 or so for insurance so we could rip you off, and then you got out of our trap!!! NOT FAIR" I think they actually except me to go, "well I know I you tried to rip me off, but here is $600 in cards just for trying so hard."