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Author
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Topic: mis cut brainstorm
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PezZz
New Member
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posted February 07, 2010 08:59 PM
     
trying to get an idea of the value of an ice age mis cut brainstorm; it is cut just enough to see there is a white card underneath it. its ex condition...any ideas? thanks for your help
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 07, 2010 10:33 PM
  
Ask Tha Gunslinga, who probably wants it. lol
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Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
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posted February 07, 2010 11:09 PM
 
$20-30 probably. I have a couple. Are you sure it's not a white card on TOP of it? I have a Pyroblast under mine, but I've got one or two with COP: Black on top.Specifically
 
__________________
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Tha Gunslinga on February 07, 2010]
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XIXSPIDERXIX
Banned
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posted February 08, 2010 08:32 AM
damn Tha Gunslinga nice camera. Also it's crazy that you were able to get both of the miscuts like that as I htought they did the packs in a random order.
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mm1983
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 08:37 AM
Could both cards be legally played as Brainstorm or would the one have to be played as a COP black?
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caquaa
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 04:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mm1983:
Could both cards be legally played as Brainstorm or would the one have to be played as a COP black?
legally the top one is brainstorm and the bottom one is a pyroblast. Also its very questionable if a judge would allow these to be played due to ease of confusion these would create. that said, they are very cool. Is it possible the OP's does have a white card below? I'd assume its not just 1 of each card on a common sheet and also that there could be more then 1 common sheet for IA, although that is a lot of assumptions that I'm sure someone who owns uncut sheets could easily clear up. __________________
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 04:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
[B]legally the top one is brainstorm and the bottom one is a pyroblast.
Are you sure about that? I thought the card's art was most important not just the card name. That's why for altered cards they say you should still be able to see from the art what the card is. Definitely a gray area and purely academic because who the hell would play with those, especially in tournament play?
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thror
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 04:42 PM
In one of Wotc's rules policies, for miscuts, the rule is that whatever NAME is on the card is what the card is. So the first is a brainstorm and the 2nd is a pyroblast.__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 05:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
In one of Wotc's rules policies, for miscuts, the rule is that whatever NAME is on the card is what the card is. So the first is a brainstorm and the 2nd is a pyroblast.
Source? I searched floor rules policies and found nothing.
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caquaa
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 06:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MoggIntellect:
Source? I searched floor rules policies and found nothing.
in the tournament rules, 3.5 Card Interpretation
The official text of any card is the Oracle text corresponding to the name of the card.
I thought there used to be something more direct, but I believe this still covers what we're looking for. __________________
Buying MM counterspells for my counterspell collection. Click me!
Global basic Island collection needs your help!If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style.
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 07:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
in the tournament rules,3.5 Card Interpretation
The official text of any card is the Oracle text corresponding to the name of the card.
I thought there used to be something more direct, but I believe this still covers what we're looking for.
I was thinking this is more appropriate: quote:
Cards used in a tournament may not have writing on their faces other than signatures or artistic modifications. Modifications may not obscure the artwork so as to make the card unrecognizable. If modifications to a card are deemed by the Head Judge to constitute outside notes or unsporting conduct, the player using such cards will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.
(Quote from Universal Tournament Rules, Section 28) Considering for altered art, most important is not obscuring the artwork, it would seem the artwork is more important than the card name. But it seems there is no definitive ruling on dual card miscuts.  I suppose it would be up to the head judge, who would most likely not allow such a card to be used.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by MoggIntellect on February 08, 2010]
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thror
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 07:33 PM
Actually, 2 problems with that document. A) its from 2007 and B) on the page before, it explicitly says 'DCI Universal Tournament Rules (UTR) - Non-Magic Only'.Recently, MTG alterations have become very popular, and at least in this area, some players have completely changed the art on their cards. As long as the name and mana cost are easily recognized, head judges around here say they are OK. Additionally, if artwork were more important than card name, why would Wotc reprint cards with different art?
__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."
[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on February 08, 2010]
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Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
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posted February 08, 2010 07:41 PM
Ask a judge before you play it if you have problems. Generally I play the Brainstorm/Pyroblast as a Brainstorm, and I don't play the COP/Brainstorm because most of it is the COP.__________________
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File a claim, leave a neg, buy on MOTL.
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 07:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
Actually, 2 problems with that document. A) its from 2007 and B) on the page before, it explicitly says 'DCI Universal Tournament Rules (UTR) - Non-Magic Only'.Recently, MTG alterations have become very popular, and at least in this area, some players have completely changed the art on their cards. As long as the name and mana cost are easily recognized, head judges around here say they are OK. Additionally, if artwork were more important than card name, why would Wotc reprint cards with different art?
Oops, you're right. I was blinded by the erroneous heading, "Rules and information for all DCI-Sanctioned tournaments" and of course, the word "universal". I think the DCI needs to relabel the portion of the rules section. As for art vs. name, you can still see no matter what art a Wrath of God is a Wrath of God. If you cover up all the card except the name and casting cost, how can you tell Wrath of God from Day of Judgment if the card is Japanese? The multi-lingual nature of cards seems to me to indicate art is the only true way to see what a card is. That was my reasoning anyway.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by MoggIntellect on February 08, 2010]
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stu55
Member
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posted February 08, 2010 09:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MoggIntellect:
As for art vs. name, you can still see no matter what art a Wrath of God is a Wrath of God. If you cover up all the card except the name and casting cost, how can you tell Wrath of God from Day of Judgment if the card is Japanese? The multi-lingual nature of cards seems to me to indicate art is the only true way to see what a card is. That was my reasoning anyway.
Um, isn't there extra text on Wrath of God for the line "can't be regenerated" ? That seems like a dead give away to me...
Assuming the judge allows the card to be played, I would willing to bet it would be a COP: Black being the majority of the card
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MoggIntellect
Member
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posted February 09, 2010 12:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MoggIntellect:
If you cover up all the card except the name and casting cost, how can you tell Wrath of God from Day of Judgment if the card is Japanese?
quote:
Originally posted by stu55:
Um, isn't there extra text on Wrath of God for the line "can't be regenerated" ? That seems like a dead give away to me...
I think you missed two of my points there. The first was "If you cover up all the card except the name and casting cost", which would mean the extra line of text would not be visible. The second was what if the card was in a foreign language, in which case no matter how much text, it would still be meaningless. The second part of what you said is in complete agreement with what I was arguing: the art would dictate what the card is as it takes up more space (as opposed to those arguing that whatever card name appears should be what that card is).
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twol84
Member
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posted February 09, 2010 01:15 AM
Both the art and name are not mutually exclusive, and should be used in tandem. For example, there are tons of alters that are essentially textless and which are painted to have a card resemble another. And there are cards with the wrong picture -- RV Serendib, Wald, Serra Elemental and so on. That said, the name should take precedence.Best to clear it up with the head judge first.
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PezZz
New Member
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posted February 09, 2010 04:00 PM
thanks for your help, will have to double check- is deffintly a white card cant remember now wether its above or underneath, not enough of it to tell what card it is as i recall...sorry it's not for sale...
[Edited 1 times, lastly by PezZz on February 09, 2010]
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