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Originally posted by Jonnyjonski:
Gentlemen please. When you become a little older and are paying for a house and a car and a student loan and you find yourself itemizing your deductions on your tax returns, you will be happy to know that you can write off your spending on Magic Cards as a hobby. Yes!! You can write off your hobbies on your taxes. My hobby is Magic the Gathering. As long as you aren't claiming it as income.

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Originally posted by Jonnyjonski:
When you do your taxes and you itemize your deductions you can add your yearly spendings on your hobby. I claim Magic the Gathering as a hobby, this is my second year doing so. As long as Magic isn't a source of income for you...claimed on your returns, you can use it as a hobby. That's essentially what it is right? You don't get paid to play Magic...as a whole.

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You are misunderstanding "Hobby" Loss. The only reason for the Hobby Loss rule is to prevent people from abusing tax shelters, basically businesses that are going to incur big losses without any actual profit. Tax shelters are a way people with big AGI's can reduce taxable income. Typically these people will have a Schedule C business that consistently show a loss, which transfers to their 1040 and reduces their AGI. Now the IRS says that if you don't show a gain in 3 out of the last 5 years, then you were not in this activity to produce profit. In order for you to be a business, you must have the goal of making a profit. If you arent in business to produce income, then you have a hobby. This 3 out of 5 years rule is debatable if you can show that you DID try to produce a profit and just didnt for any number of reasons.

If you were audited you would be forced to add back whatever you deducted and pay the tax on it plus applicable penalties and fees.

Also, typically purchasing a car wouldnt allow you any itemized deductions. This year is different since you can now deduct your excise tax or sales tax paid, but you can do that whether you itemize or take the standard deduction

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Originally posted by stu55:
Not sure that is right...you are still benefiting from the appreciation of the collection. If you have 50 Tabernacles and got them at $100 each, then you have an increase of value of $7500...also note that depreciation is not included in figuring of a hobby or business.

If the collection shows a decent enough increase in value, I am pretty sure that needs to be reported...whether people do it or not is a whole other thing.

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If you have a stock that appreciates in value do you report it as income? Not until you sell it. Why would that be different in this case?

The ultimate goal is to be classified as a business. If you are a business, you get to deduct all necessary business expenses. This way your business would be put on a schedule C and your losses would transfer directly to your AGI reducing by the amount of your loss.

If you do this and the IRS decides that you are not a business, but you are a hobby, then you would deduct the expenses occured up to the amount of income. This deduction is subject to the 2% floor (basically you take 2% of your final AGI, and you get to deduct everything in excess of that up to your income) Plus you have to itemize to take it.

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Originally posted by mm1983:
Is it only hobby/card stores that can deduct MTG expenses since they are a real business and have other store expenses outside of MTG? As a player doing this for a hobby there really is no proof of any gain or loss acquired from the game, therefore, any monetary gain from the game is tax free (ebay as an example) but any losses can't be deducted from taxes. Keep in mind ebay and paypal take their fees on anything sold.

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Originally posted by Montague:

Well here is the problem. Our government kinda operates on the honor code. You are legally obligated to report any income on your tax return. Even if you are just a player. Say you bought 10 scroll racks for $2 each. You come to MOTL and sell them for $10 each. You just made $80 that should be taxed because you have an increase in wealth. You don't have to be a store to deduct the expenses, but I explained this above

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True... All I am saying is there is no proof that the Scroll Racks would be bought for $2 or $20. I only do this as a hobby so any money I get from the game whether it's at a loss or a profit goes back into the game until the day I quit playing which at that point then maybe I would have to pay tax on the money. If I ever do gain a profit on the card end when I quit playing I am way behind as it is as far as my time put into the game, travel, food, and other expenses.

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Originally posted by Montague:

If you have a stock that appreciates in value do you report it as income? Not until you sell it. Why would that be different in this case?

The ultimate goal is to be classified as a business. If you are a business, you get to deduct all necessary business expenses. This way your business would be put on a schedule C and your losses would transfer directly to your AGI reducing by the amount of your loss.

If you do this and the IRS decides that you are not a business, but you are a hobby, then you would deduct the expenses occured up to the amount of income. This deduction is subject to the 2% floor (basically you take 2% of your final AGI, and you get to deduct everything in excess of that up to your income) Plus you have to itemize to take it.

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Ugh, 6 months out and I am getting rusty on some things. That makes sense, but like I said, wasn't sure but I knew Johnny was wrong...he might want to either A)Not do his own taxes or B) Get a new accountant.

most of them are just like flipping a coin.

However, if you've taken a high level math course, you will probably realize math is made up.

Hence, everything is made up. So can you figments of my imagination please stop arguing?

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Originally posted by thror:
Everything is math, in one way or another.

However, if you've taken a high level math course, you will probably realize math is made up.

Hence, everything is made up. So can you figments of my imagination please stop arguing?

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Not true! At least, I don't think so. Our interpretations of math--how we translate it to an understandable system for human digestion--is made up, but math is a universal constant. Bertrand Russel (?) proved this when he used a different type of mathematic notation to prove that 1+1=2. This justified our standard system as a correct way to deal with mathematics as unflawed. Otherwise, we may have been in trouble. :P He also proved, mathematically, that he did, in fact, exsist. But, who knows, he might be the only one who does.

I'm sleep-deprived, so if I messed up that counter-arguement, don't be too hard on me. Figment-flaming is a cruel and deplorable practise. :P

Yes, I know they are super wanted. I played legacy long enough to know that

How high can they go? I'm a full time university student. Money hasn't been a problem, yet. But since I don't play MTG anymore (save for 1 tournament in months) I'd like to know when its best to move the "extended" part of my collection. Like, how long should I hang on the cards? (EE, Mox, Goyfs, Confidant, etc).
How about Duals?

Or are these price increase a proof that something is going mad and that MTG will crash...

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Originally posted by Omega:
I'd like some opinions on the Goyf

Yes, I know they are super wanted. I played legacy long enough to know that

How high can they go? I'm a full time university student. Money hasn't been a problem, yet. But since I don't play MTG anymore (save for 1 tournament in months) I'd like to know when its best to move the "extended" part of my collection. Like, how long should I hang on the cards? (EE, Mox, Goyfs, Confidant, etc).
How about Duals?

Or are these price increase a proof that something is going mad and that MTG will crash...

thank you
Robert

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Many of the cards that are good in Extended are also played in Legacy/Vintage, so come rotation there'll probably be a dip in prices but they won't fall much and may eventually climb back up.

Duals are also worth holding onto, in the coming months there will be more Legacy 5ks so demand will increase steadily. As far is I know, duals are one of the most stable investments one can make.

just found this post from a Major Vintage Tournement in Europ...

They're looking for their prizes ^^

They buy at this price in €€€ ... Fair ??

European Buying price for a Major Tournement

4 mer souterraine BN exc/fine: 100e/piece
3 ile volcanique BN exc/fine: 80e/piece
5 tundra BN exc/fine: 85€/piece
2 ile tropicale BN exc/fine: 85€/piece
1 taiga BN exc/fine: 45e/piece
1 bayou BN exc/fine: 45e/piece
3 savane BN exc/fine: 40e/piece

Need Opinion

Expensive ^^

1 ile trop 3°bn fine 75
1 ile trop bn excll+ 90
2 ile volca 3°bn excll- 78
1 ile volca 3°bn excll+ 85
1 toundra 3°bn excll 86
1 toundra 3°excll+ 90
1 mer sout 3°bn excll+ 125
2 toundra 3°bn nmt- 110
2 ile volca 3°bn nmt- 105
2 ile trop 3°bn nmt- 110
2 mer sout 3°bn nmt- 150

So price in Europ are much higher than people usualy offering online... that's why i pull out all my BB dual from my H/W List...

i won't trade down when i know that i can sale higher without a doubt...

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Originally posted by stacker:
that's not particularly surprising since the only rare applicable in vintage is the golem

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Originally posted by Foil Jp Lodestone Golem are going for $50+ on Japanese auction, pretty messed up...:
[b][/b]

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The last playset went for about $65 a card.
They are mostly being bought buy people who will be reselling them to the States and Europe.

when zen came out, a singlular foil jap spell pierce got sold on ebay for $100 USD. these are only bringing in big $$ right now because supply is low and speculation is high.

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Originally posted by alphataru:
I still don't understand how it can cost so much though.

This thing has almost no T2, ext use. It has limited 1.5 use. It's pretty much only at its full potential in vintage. The last normal rare that only has eternal usage that I can think of is ad nauseam, and JP foil ad nauseams don't cost this much.

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