quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
You are lost. I am not baiting you into anything. You are trying to cleanse the non-MOR pile by practically getting rid of everyone else in there except you, and possibly dakrum. Like I said before I DO NOT NEED to argue with someone to be IC. Just like you DO NOT NEED to be overly defensive or post infrequently. BOT came after me, I did not go after him, so if you want to fabricate stories in order to hide your true intentions please at least have a little more creativity. I have no read on you except to know that you are usually inactive especially in the later aspects of the game. Something that benefits you when you are a wolf.

How is Bruised my backup? He is the person who I think is most likely to be a wolf at this stage of the game. I am meanwhile trying to figure out who I think his 2 partners in crime may be. In Post 239 of the previous thread, he states that he doesn't think BOT is a wolf but he finds him more suspicious than anyone else? He then states "I am highly suspicious of the MW/Jaz argument as Jaz comes off way too defensive and MW way too abrasive/offensive.". He basically gives too much information without analysis and then tries to ask the people as a whole about me and MW and then says you know what I will just vote for one of XPR and MW, despite his post talking about how suspicious he finds everyone else. You also never responded to this post Jaz despite being brought up in it, how come?

---

I meant backup as in, he's your backup person to argue with, not as in backing you up.

I did not respond to Bruised's post, because he was stating an opinion on mine and MW's argument. If he thinks that, ok, let him. I can't exactly force him to change his opinion. I also didn't feel that his post warranted a response. You don't have to respond and defend yourself to every single post about you.

And I already said that we should lynch the Mor pile, yes ALL FOUR OF US. And yes, I KNOW IT INCLUDES ME. This is what I mean, you're doing it again. You're baiting me to make argue with you.

I won't be drawn into this anymore.

Don't bother asking me questions anymore XPR. I will not answer them.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
I meant backup as in, he's your backup person to argue with, not as in backing you up.

I did not respond to Bruised's post, because he was stating an opinion on mine and MW's argument. If he thinks that, ok, let him. I can't exactly force him to change his opinion. I also didn't feel that his post warranted a response. You don't have to respond and defend yourself to every single post about you.

And I already said that we should lynch the Mor pile, yes ALL FOUR OF US. And yes, I KNOW IT INCLUDES ME. This is what I mean, you're doing it again. You're baiting me to make argue with you.

I won't be drawn into this anymore.

Don't bother asking me questions anymore XPR. I will not answer them.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

I know I don't have to respond to every post, but you can't leave my opinion or MW opinion alone so I was surprised that you leave Bruised's opinion alone. I don't know why you insist that I am baiting you, and now that is your excuse to just ignore anything I ask you. You can go ahead and say that as much as you like. You are overcompensating and now you are trying to completely evade the whole subject.

PS: I never said to lynch the Mor pile, I said to lynch the non-Mor pile. I assume this is what you meant

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by XplicitR:
...I have no read on you except to know that you are usually inactive especially in the later aspects of the game. Something that benefits you when you are a wolf...

---

I dunno if she is a wolf this game, she could be, but she doesn't follow the post profile you are saying she does.[/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MagicMystic:
Bernie- Bernie's last post raises all sorts of red flags to me. He says that he wants to lynch someone in the non-Morbid pile, which is fine. He then states the two people he'd vote for, but his reasoning is utterly nonsensical and has no further explanation. If he was newer, I could buy it, but this last post is ridiculous.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
As you can see from comparing round 1's votes to round 2's votes, the only players who have not voted for a player who has been confirmed to be a cit so far are:

XplicitR (me), Jazaray, Dakrum, MasterWolf

So this means everyone in the non-MOR pile were in non-BOT piles last round as well.

---

Wait...what?

MasterWolf voted for Battle_of_Twits, which you clearly displayed with the pile analysis just above the rest of your post. This is pretty strange to say the least.

Speaking of coincidence, BoT did vote for you. I'm surprised that this VILLAGER FACT was relatively ignored just like the last mafia game.

My suspicions of TMB/Monty have dropped a bit, but I'm still not clearing him by any means. The last nightkill still took almost 24 hours and we don't know if TMB actually submitted a name or not or if he's simply not the w00f leader.

Caitiri's last post gave me a village vibe, and so I'm going to lower my suspicion of him as well for now.

Here are some additional piles that I didn't see anywhere yet (done in the fashion the other piles were made):

BoT suspects: XPR (vote), MW, PD
Gawain suspects: BOT (dead), TMB/Monty, Josh, Cait

People who voted for 0 confirmed cits:
Dakrum
Jazaray
XplicitR

People who voted for 1 confirmed cit:
Bruised
Caitiri
Fwybwed
MagicMystic
MasterWolf
TMB/Montague

quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
I know I don't have to respond to every post, but you can't leave my opinion or MW opinion alone so I was surprised that you leave Bruised's opinion alone. I don't know why you insist that I am baiting you, and now that is your excuse to just ignore anything I ask you. You can go ahead and say that as much as you like. You are overcompensating and now you are trying to completely evade the whole subject.

PS: I never said to lynch the Mor pile, I said to lynch the non-Mor pile. I assume this is what you meant

EDIT: I know what you meant when you said backup. I was saying that I do not need "backup" people to argue with and do not know why you feel the need to continue to say that. I was accusing Bruised of being a wolf based on what I saw in his post, not fighting with him. Where do you see me fighting with him? Oh that's right you don't have to answer that. Pretty convenient if you ask me.

---

Yes, I meant the non-mor pile.

And I didn't jump on any of your opinions, You're not stating an "opinion" that I'm not active, you're stating it as if it were a fact, and it's not.

And, you're right, I don't see you fighting with him, why? Because HE'S not rising to the bait either.

I'm not trying to evade anything but your ridiculous attempts to bait me into fighting with you by outright lying about me, because you didn't want to take the time to actually do some research and just went by how I played in Mafia 9, which as I've stated, and PD has stated and whomever else has stated, was an anomaly and not how I usually play. If you had some clear, well thought-out, TRUE facts that you wanted to discuss, I'm all for it. But I refuse to be drawn into a battle with you, with "facts" that you are making up.

I think that it's rather "convenient" that I asked you to go into more detail of your suspicion of Bruised's post, so that I might better understand what you meant, and you've not done so. Yet you continue to whine about how no one sees the same thing you do within that post.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
Yes, I meant the non-mor pile.

And I didn't jump on any of your opinions, You're not stating an "opinion" that I'm not active, you're stating it as if it were a fact, and it's not.

And, you're right, I don't see you fighting with him, why? Because HE'S not rising to the bait either.

I'm not trying to evade anything but your ridiculous attempts to bait me into fighting with you by outright lying about me, because you didn't want to take the time to actually do some research and just went by how I played in Mafia 9, which as I've stated, and PD has stated and whomever else has stated, was an anomaly and not how I usually play. If you had some clear, well thought-out, TRUE facts that you wanted to discuss, I'm all for it. But I refuse to be drawn into a battle with you, with "facts" that you are making up.

I think that it's rather "convenient" that I asked you to go into more detail of your suspicion of Bruised's post, so that I might better understand what you meant, and you've not done so. Yet you continue to whine about how no one sees the same thing you do within that post.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

Its funny how you are the one trying to bait me into fighting with you. Using words like whine and accusing me of trying to start fights with everyone.

You should take your own advice and scroll up please and read as I went into detail above about Bruised. I don't need to repeat it a second time, thank you very much.

I have both Jaz and Xpr on my list of Suspects but look at them go...

Xpr willing to take a hit for the Village...? Is this a bluff to...Jaz is really getting choked, is that an over defensive situation...?

I want to know what Xpr saw that was fake in Bruised' post also.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Josh has a lot of reknown as one of the best mafia players on MOTL, and I've noted a relatively quiet, nonconfrontational, highly observant appearance to him. His suspect lists don't come with a lot of analysis, and I am a little put off by that. And frankly, he makes me nervous because of his rep--if he's a wolf, we'd definitely be at a disadvantage. I have no case against him tho... his game has appeared quite clean. I guess I'd feel better if I got a peek inside his brain.

---

I earned a lot of my original cred from being a good citizen in the earlier mafia games, we're talking like three or four years ago (can't recall). The play has evolved greatly since then, and my skill set isn't necessarily geared toward the challenge villagers face today. I certainly try to give it my best, though. As for my posting style, I don't necessarily have one. I tend to fly off the cuff, as it were. What you get is pretty much what you get. I'm never silent, but I'm not always a prolific poster.

I was once asked about my strategy for playing mafia and I said "I don't really have one. I don't blow smoke up anyone's as ass I try to tell it like I think it is."

Here's what I have right now:

PlasteredDragon- I'd be crazy to trust you implicitly, as you have also noted. I've been tinkering with the idea that you may have latched onto my difficulty with B_o_T and tried to help turn my vote, which could in turn turn other's. I had a feeling that if he was a cit, either you or gawain could be a wolf, but likely not both. You're still alive, and the wolf kils appear to be settingus up to lynch you. That's more of a you're alive instead of gawain argument than a "ZOMGPD is alive he'sgotta be a wolf." Also, NK0 lag complaint.

MasterWolf- NK0 lag complaint. Also, his insistance at offing Jazaray raises some red flags for me. But for the situation, not necessarily from him.

fwybwed- NK0 lag complaint, nothing much else.

Bruised- NK0 lag complaint, nothing much else.

MagicMystic- I felt like he was trying to latch onto TMB to earn credit for it when we lynch TMB and it turns out he's the wolf leader. Now, I don't think that's the case. I do wish he'd post more though.

caitiri- I think this is because I expected more of caitiri than we've gotten so far. I played mafia with him once and I know he's inteligent, and follows the game thoroughly. I honestly can't find much else.

XplicitR - Seemed like he was trying to hard to suspect me. He got the thread wrong, and who I was replying to, plus I was totally in the right to make the post, as it had been clearly stated before that the UBB Discussion thread was not to be used for the current game. I also don't like the idea of using the content of a player's posts outside the game to try to determine game status. I'm all for watching post history if someone is not posting here, though. Also, XplicitR's answers to #7 on PD's questionnaire stuck out-- he chose me twice even though he's said his reasoning for suspecting me wasn't the most sound, and has chosen not to follow up on that suspicion since. Also, the arguing between him and Jazaray is curious, moreso on Jaz's part.

Jazaray- Her interactions with MasterWolf and XplicitR lead me to wonder if any or all of them are wolves (she believes the other two are, so why couldn't she be the third?). Both seem a bit contrived to me, especailly Jaz and XplicitR.

Montague- TMB's absence from the game is the best fit for the WW lag. That TMB requested replacement does not clear Montague.

BernieB- I have nothing

dakrum- Two of the three people who thought you were cleared based on Bernek's last post are now confirmed citizens. I never suspected you, but I'm also still not convinced you're cleared.

My idea about the NK0 may be sound, but I don't see how I can dig a WW out of it. So I doubt I'll persue it anymore. It seems like my two best leads are PD and the Jaz-MW-Xpr "love triangle." Based on these observations, I believe my vote should be submitted for XplicitR, with the added comment that Xpr's identity does not in any way determine Jazaray's.

{SUSPECT: XplicitR}
{SUSPECT: PlasteredDragon}
{SUSPECT: Jazaray}
{SUSPECT: MasterWolf}

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
People who voted for 0 confirmed cits:
Dakrum
Jazaray
XplicitR

People who voted for 1 confirmed cit:
Bruised
Caitiri
Fwybwed
MagicMystic
MasterWolf
TMB/Montague

People who voted for 2 confirmed cits:
BernieB
JoshSherman
PlasteredDragon

---

Out of curiosity, what do you believe these piles mean? I'm not sure it's relevant yet because of the round one policy lynch.

quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
So this means everyone in the non-MOR pile were in non-BOT piles last round as well. So do we start cleansing it and see where it gets us? If we do maybe we should develop a strategy so that while ALL 4 (yes Jaz that means you too) of the players in this pile will be removed the seer can go and leer at the other remaining cits in order to ensure that someone who is seered is not killed (from this round on that is). In order to show that this is not some sort of wolf strategy I will volunteer to go first.

---

We have 3 lynches left. If there is only one wolf in the non-MOR pile we will waste 2 lynches at least, and given the pile is 4 players and we have 3 lynches, if there's only one wolf we could get NO wolves.

Our odds become better if there are two wolves in the non-MOR pile, although 2 wolves in that pile is even less likely than 1.

Secondly we don't know what pile the seer is in. XPR you keep suggesting the seer should focus his or her attention on the MOR pile while we chase after the non-MOR pile. What if the seer is in the non-MOR pile? Granted, when that player's turn came up they would just reveal themselves which would eliminate another non-MOR choice, but it would also end their ability to investigate the MOR pile.

In the end going after the non-MOR pile is a gamble, and right now I don't get a particularly wolfy vibe from anyone in that pile, though there are some strong candidates there for an info-lynch.

People who voted for (or didn't vote for) confirmed cits is not a very reliable heuristic by which to measure wolfiness--votes for unknowns are highly likely to be votes for cits as well.

So all in all XPR, I find myself somewhat reluctant to go along with the strategy you're proposing. At present I don't have an alternative strategy though. I'd like to get your thoughts on what I've said here before I decide. In the meantime I'm going to try looking over the alternative piles to see if anything can be gleaned, although with only 2 rounds completed, pile analysis is less useful.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BernieB:
You may not agree that a wolf might not want to be a part of any pile in the beginning, but calling it 'ridiculous' seems a bit harsh. I hate to be that person who suspects someone just because they get suspected, but MM just got put on my list. The bottom of it, but still on the list.

---

I find your reaction out of character and somewhat telling.

{VOTING: BernieB (OOC play - OMGUS)}

If I'm still around in R4, I'll take another look at the piles then--may have to use the R2 piles to learn anything.

I still suspect TMB/Monty... he is the best fit for the wolf lag. My suspicion of Cait has fallen away somewhat but I've still got my eye on him.

At present I don't know what to think about MW/Jaz/Xpr but Josh's thoughts definitely bear thinking about.

I think BernieB is the best bet right now to bag a wolf... finally somebody OOC.

{SUSPECT: TMB (best fit for wolf-lag)}
{SUSPECT: Cait (earlier case)}

I'm a little concerned that a number of the "suspect lists" I've seen recently seem to be more like commentary than any sort of statement of suspicion. Maybe we are just all highly confused or something.

Aras, how much longer is your work-only internet-access situation going to persist? Is this a permanent situation? I would really like to have gotten your insights over the weekend. As it is you are going to have so much reading to get done today I can't imagine you will be able to catch up and work at the same time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
[B]How is Bruised my backup? He is the person who I think is most likely to be a wolf at this stage of the game. I am meanwhile trying to figure out who I think his 2 partners in crime may be. In Post 239 of the previous thread, he states that he doesn't think BOT is a wolf but he finds him more suspicious than anyone else? He then states "I am highly suspicious of the MW/Jaz argument as Jaz comes off way too defensive and MW way too abrasive/offensive.". He basically gives too much information without analysis and then tries to ask the people as a whole about me and MW and then says you know what I will just vote for one of XPR and MW, despite his post talking about how suspicious he finds everyone else.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by XplicitR:
So this means everyone in the non-MOR pile were in non-BOT piles last round as well. So do we start cleansing it and see where it gets us? If we do maybe we should develop a strategy so that while ALL 4 (yes Jaz that means you too) of the players in this pile will be removed the seer can go and leer at the other remaining cits in order to ensure that someone who is seered is not killed (from this round on that is). In order to show that this is not some sort of wolf strategy I will volunteer to go first.

---

EDIT: grammar
EDIT: {SUMMARY: thoughts on XPR's proposed strategy of eliminating non-MOR pile}[/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XplicitR:
Please read this fwyb.

---

I see what you mean...but that is pretty much what alot of villagers are doin atm.

Im not sure where to vote...there is alot of noninformation floating around by some players and I think that adds to this smoke screen of lagg shreds...

what I see is that alot of Xpr's game is similiar to AMG's in the way of beefing with people. I surprised no one would vote for him in the sense we would have ousted AGM over!? To me this would say that the WWs would want him around. As he has no real leads... does that make sense? Cuz Im at a loss once again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:

MagicMystic- I felt like he was trying to latch onto TMB to earn credit for it when we lynch TMB and it turns out he's the wolf leader. Now, I don't think that's the case. I do wish he'd post more though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Okay, I've been iffy on the "whack the non-MOR pile" strategy. It's a small pile, any wolf hiding in it would be highly isolated and exposed... with the giant MOR pile to hide in it seems like far less tempting a choice as a hiding place. But okay, let's say there is a wolf (or wolves) in it anyway.

We have 3 lynches left. If there is only one wolf in the non-MOR pile we will waste 2 lynches at least, and given the pile is 4 players and we have 3 lynches, if there's only one wolf we could get NO wolves.

Our odds become better if there are two wolves in the non-MOR pile, although 2 wolves in that pile is even less likely than 1.

Secondly we don't know what pile the seer is in. XPR you keep suggesting the seer should focus his or her attention on the MOR pile while we chase after the non-MOR pile. What if the seer is in the non-MOR pile? Granted, when that player's turn came up they would just reveal themselves which would eliminate another non-MOR choice, but it would also end their ability to investigate the MOR pile.

In the end going after the non-MOR pile is a gamble, and right now I don't get a particularly wolfy vibe from anyone in that pile, though there are some strong candidates there for an info-lynch.

People who voted for (or didn't vote for) confirmed cits is not a very reliable heuristic by which to measure wolfiness--votes for unknowns are highly likely to be votes for cits as well.

So all in all XPR, I find myself somewhat reluctant to go along with the strategy you're proposing. At present I don't have an alternative strategy though. I'd like to get your thoughts on what I've said here before I decide. In the meantime I'm going to try looking over the alternative piles to see if anything can be gleaned, although with only 2 rounds completed, pile analysis is less useful.

EDIT: grammar
EDIT: {SUMMARY: thoughts on XPR's proposed strategy of eliminating non-MOR pile}

---

Why did you edit this post? You went from voting Monty to voting BernieB in what appears to be a whim based on character play. Why did you remove your thoughts about the night kill (for example, your and explanation for voting for Monty - what was the harm in keeping them there?

Since you did ask and I didn't post this yet, my suspect list is as follows:

Medium - MasterWolf (spat, my earlier explanation, and haven't heard anything from him), Jazaray (two spats and somewhat defensive nature), TMB/Montague (my earlier explanation, not hearing much from him)
Medium-Low - XplicitR (spat and missing vote breakdown)

Suffice to say, I REALLY believe that there is at least one w00f in the pile that includes me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Out of curiosity, what do you believe these piles mean? I'm not sure it's relevant yet because of the round one policy lynch.

---

Since I was on XpR's case for getting the pile incorrect and since I already did part of it, I figured that I might as well finish the job. Right now, the only piles I'm interested in at all are the 0 and 2 confirmed cit piles. I gravely doubt that there are two w00fs in the 2 villager pile, but to me it's not out of the question that XpR and Jaz are both w00fs. I would believe that they should see this coming though, but I could be wrong.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
...I'm not sure where to vote...there is alot of noninformation floating around by some players and I think that adds to this smoke screen of lagg shreds...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Why did you edit this post? You went from voting Monty to voting BernieB in what appears to be a whim based on character play. Why did you remove your thoughts about the night kill (for example, your and explanation for voting for Monty - what was the harm in keeping them there?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
I see what you mean...but that is pretty much what alot of villagers are doin atm.

---

Ok, this might be nothing but, I'd feel really stupid if I didn't point this out.

How do you know a lot of "villagers" are doing this? I mean, how do you know they're villagers? I know, it might just be slip of the tongue and all, but this is very much like what happened with Caitiri a while ago, when he posted that GLE was a cit (IIRC), and again another time with someone else (I forget the exact details).

Fwy is also not really IC, he usually post a lot of combative posts and latches on to one or two players, refusing to see anyone else.

My suspect list is:

High Suspicion: XPR (argumentative game play, making up facts to suit his suspicions), MW (Lag time, reduction in posting)
Med. Suspicion: TMB/MON (lag time, silence) , BB (silence, doesn't post reasoning)
Low Suspicion: FWY (slip of the tongue, OOC play)
Very low suspicion: PD(odd posts)

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Right now, the only piles I'm interested in at all are the 0 and 2 confirmed cit piles. I gravely doubt that there are two w00fs in the 2 villager pile, but to me it's not out of the question that XpR and Jaz are both w00fs. I would believe that they should see this coming though, but I could be wrong.

---

To make it clearer, the following unknowns have received votes in R1 and R2 of this game:

Josh, TMB, Jaz, Bruised, PD, XPR, MW

As you can see that's seven people. Given that there are not seven wolves, and that there is a decent possibility that not all the wolves are in this list, it is very likely some of the people in your 0 pile belong in the 1 or 2 pile, and some of the people in you 1 pile belong in the 2 pile.