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The real problem is that trawling (notably by EU ships acting illegally) has decimated the northern fisheries, a resource upon which the seal population relies for its survival, which means that the seal population must be kept in check. According to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the seal hunt is our primary and best means of keeping the seal population in check, so that it does not end up dying to starvation, disease, overpopulation, etc.

The real problem here is not so much that the EU wants to ban seal products--if they wish to do so, they can, and should. The problem is that the reasons for doing so are shady at best. About a year ago, a Belgian cabinet minister--I don't remember her post--began a movement in Belgium to ban Canadian seal products. She went on Radio-Canada, the French equivalent of CBC Radio, to talk about her crusade. Her work eventually led Belgium to become the first EU nation to ban Canadian seal products. The problem? She was spouting outright lies. She claimed, for example, that the trade revolved around the routine slayings of whitecoats and bluebacks, which has been banned in Canada since 1987. She also claimed that 98% of seals were clubbed--untrue--and that clubbing (with a hakapik) is a cruel practice that leaves the animal stunned while it is skinned. Again, that second claim is patently false, as verified by studies conducted by the WWF, CVMA, IFAW, and other independent observers.

Likewise, much of the talk surrounding the European ban seems motivated by similar misinformation (witness the myriad celebrity cockups on the issue starting in 2006, most notably Paul McCartney's laughable campaign), making this an overly emotional decision rather than a rational one. As you said, cute animals always win.

EDIT: Also, this does not bode well for the free trade talks between Canada and the EU, scheduled for Prague later this week.

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Originally posted by Keaner:
I'm not sure how it will go down but all of this will be brought up to the World Trade Organization. The EU can't place a ban on seal products if the hunt is proven humane. Which it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt by many organizations such as the World Wildlife Federation. I just hope when they rule in our favor, the EU doesn't make up some other BS legislation based on clips from the 1980s hunt and other PETA supplied evidence of cruelty.

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Just to stir the pot: I bet the seal doesnt consider it humane.

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Originally posted by squirrel overlord:
Just to stir the pot: I bet the seal doesnt consider it humane.

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Neither did your mom last night.

/my comment is as relevant to the conversation as your is

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Originally posted by pyr0ma5ta:
Neither did your mom last night.

/my comment is as relevant to the conversation as your is

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must I perform the obligatory o snap post?

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Originally posted by pyr0ma5ta:
Neither did your mom last night.

/my comment is as relevant to the conversation as your is

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I agree with Pyro

I think we can all agree that humans are "superior" to other animals in term of rational capabilities. (Whether or not someone use it is not important. It is the potential that matters) The animals can't really consider what we do inhumane because they don't understand themselves as living beings. They can only feel pain/joy/hunger. But because they can feel pain, it is also our duty to make sure that they have the less.

And seriously, who think Seals are cute?

I remember in high school, when someone was talking about horse's meat and students would be frigthened by this "inhumane" talking. If the criteria of inhumanity is cuteness, then we have a serious problem.

Robert

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Originally posted by squirrel overlord:
Just to stir the pot: I bet the seal doesnt consider it humane.

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Originally posted by Keaner:
If the seal could possibly think that, it wouldn't matter. If the hunt didn't exsist, the government would have to step in and cull the herd anyway. Also, good luck getting the Innu and Inuit to stop the hunt. A band of Quebec Innu crossed into Labrador a month ago and killed a herd of endangered caribou. The government can't and won't do a thing about it.

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I definitly agree.Culling a herd is more important than most people realize.With an abundance of prey,be it deer,rabbits seals ect.. natural predators will increase as well.Eventually one of thesse predators will get more brazen and instead of a seal it will be a young child that gets eaten instead.
Most members here are proberbly to young to remember seeing the seal hunt on tv in the 80's.It depicted a hunter clubing a cute baby seal to death.The uproar that created was amazing.Had that been a cow,pig,chicken or any other well known menu item in a resturant no one would have cared.Which basicly means if its cute,protect it.If it isnt,"lets eat it".In a few places ive worked we have had a great rabbit dish on the menu but it doesnt sell,a 12 oz T-bone does though(cuteness factor)?

I was actually tryng to be funny in my earlier post but sadly i guess it got misinterpreted.

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Originally posted by squirrel overlord:
I definitly agree.Culling a herd is more important than most people realize.With an abundance of prey,be it deer,rabbits seals ect.. natural predators will increase as well.Eventually one of thesse predators will get more brazen and instead of a seal it will be a young child that gets eaten instead.

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If there's anything we've learned over and over from ecology, it's that humans are terrible at knowing what's good for the ecosystem. Trust me when I say that every single time we've tried to do something like this, it results in disaster. And so what if a child gets eaten? It happens. Nobody reports on the thousands of children who starve to death every day, but a wolf eats a child and suddenly the world goes ape****. There's too many people on Earth as it is. Didn't you know, we have a overpopulation problem?

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Originally posted by pyr0ma5ta:
Didn't you know, we have a overpopulation problem?

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That's what the swine flu was supposed to do...

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Originally posted by Greven53:
That's what the swine flu was supposed to do...

Can we call it the kitten flu instead? Maybe that would spread easier.

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Even better- the Obama administration could provide a 500$ tax cut for anyone with swine flu. Thin the herd and boost the economy at the same time!

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Originally posted by ch3ckm4t3:
Economies in Europe are in worse shape than the US. Europe has high taxes (UK has something like 60% tax on people making 100k Euro a year).

Why would we want to copy Europe? Our GDP is bigger than the entire EU combined. Of the top 30 richest people in the entire world, 16 are American. Of the 500 biggest global companies, 153 are American (next biggest country is US clone Japan at 64).

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Obvious troll is obvious.

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Originally posted by ch3ckm4t3:
Economies in Europe are in worse shape than the US. Europe has high taxes (UK has something like 60% tax on people making 100k Euro a year).

Why would we want to copy Europe? Our GDP is bigger than the entire EU combined. Of the top 30 richest people in the entire world, 16 are American. Of the 500 biggest global companies, 153 are American (next biggest country is US clone Japan at 64).

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Who cares if 0.05% of the population is the richest in the world or that those weatlthy people own all the companies you slave for? Great Argument, LOL.

The majority of the population has the lowest standard of living in the G8, the lowest life expectancy, the highest health care cost, the most violent deaths and the lowest education levels. So what if Oprah and Bill Gates are rich, most Americans have a pretty crappy life compared to people in the EU. People in the EU don't die or go bankrupt if they have a brain tumour and need surgery.

What's the good of all those tax savings if you just have to waste them on insurance, interest & companies profits or loans to keep yourself alive or paying for university.

Americans have a false sense of entitlement that leads them to believe they deserve the best of everything, even without working for it. The government has to go into hock over their heads to the Chinese and create a fake GDP (called Stimulus) because the people won't tolerate a loss in their entitled status.

The US is the same size as the EU so a similar GDP, minus waste from profits in health care and education, minus stimulus would be about equal, the only difference is, Europeans have a higher standard of living and life expectancy.

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Originally posted by garry anderson:
Who cares if 0.05% of the population is the richest in the world or that those weatlthy people own all the companies you slave for? Great Argument, LOL.

The majority of the population has the lowest standard of living in the G8, the lowest life expectancy, the highest health care cost, the most violent deaths and the lowest education levels. So what if Oprah and Bill Gates are rich, most Americans have a pretty crappy life compared to people in the EU. People in the EU don't die or go bankrupt if they have a brain tumour and need surgery.

What's the good of all those tax savings if you just have to waste them on insurance, interest & companies profits or loans to keep yourself alive or paying for university.

Americans have a false sense of entitlement that leads them to believe they deserve the best of everything, even without working for it. The government has to go into hock over their heads to the Chinese and create a fake GDP (called Stimulus) because the people won't tolerate a loss in their entitled status.

The US is the same size as the EU so a similar GDP, minus waste from profits in health care and education, minus stimulus would be about equal, the only difference is, Europeans have a higher standard of living and life expectancy.

Frankly, I feel sorry for Americans because they've been programmed with the Red, White & Blue for so long, they really have no idea how bad thier society stacks up to the rest of the developed world.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh.

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
ME AMERICAN ME **** NO STINK RAWR

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Great job on proving his point, genius.

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh.

Seriously though, I don't need my government to baby me and wipe my ass cradle to grave like those in Europe do. I feel sorry for Europeans. They need their government to give them everything, and now they're incapable of living their own life or doing things for themselves.

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You do, you just do it without knowing it. You are sheep chasing a carrot, the American Dream, LOL that only exists for 0.05% of your population.

The EU people work for it, pay someone (government/taxes)who is more efficient without a need for maximizing profit from the uneducated and sick. You see, not all business is good business.

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nd if Europe has it right, why do the European economies depend on the US economy? Looks to me like the US has it right, and Europe is is nothing but lazy, co-dependant cry babys.

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The EU doesn't interact with the US Economy so much as you might think. Buying fraudulent AMERICAN sub-prime mortgages repakaged as secure investments and sold abroad, is the prime reason for the financial mess over the face of the globe.

Regardless the trade deficit of the US only shows one thing, Americans (inlcuding the Government) will sell out their financial future (buying on credit/with debt) in order to keep up the illusion that all is great in the Good Ole USA. American's don't work for anything, they feel entitled to it. They borrow from people, who work hard and save, to buy what they feel they deserve even without working for it. So who's the lazy ones?

You're country/government is about to go bankrupt.

You're whining about paying too much in taxes, I recommend you pay a lot more to pay down yur debt, or become China's bitch. All they have to do to destroy the US is not renew their loans to your government. Imagine flying China's Red Hook and Sickle flag over Washington.

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Originally posted by garry anderson:

You do, you just do it without knowing it. You are sheep chasing a carrot, the American Dream, LOL that only exists for 0.05% of your population.

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The Median US Household income is 50k. UK is 39k. Only 12% of Americans fall below government (which you worship) poverty lines (high number of those sadly black and Latinos). 22% of Britons were under poverty. Here you can be born in a Log Cabin or be a black community organizer from Chicago and become president. I come from a very poor family myself and am doing quite well.

America (the country with a conservative history) is the one who led the world in innovation the last 100 years. We are the ones who landed man on the moon, won the most Nobel prizes, etc. Of the 20 best colleges in the world 13 are located in the US.

I want to live in a country where people fail and succeed.

Lets copy the UK and raise our taxes on the rich.

Http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-colleges/2008/11/20/worlds-best-colleges-and-universities-top-200.html

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Originally posted by garry anderson:
BTW, I just want everyone to know I don't think all people from the US are <snip> like Skizzikmonger.

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You are not allowed to use the word I snipped in a derogatory manner.

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Originally posted by JoshSherman:
You are not allowed to use the word I snipped in a derogatory manner.

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Originally posted by ch3ckm4t3:
The Median US Household income is 50k. UK is 39k. Only 12% of Americans fall below government (which you worship) poverty lines (high number of those sadly black and Latinos). 22% of Britons were under poverty. Here you can be born in a Log Cabin or be a black community organizer from Chicago and become president. I come from a very poor family myself and am doing quite well.

America (the country with a conservative history) is the one who led the world in innovation the last 100 years. We are the ones who landed man on the moon, won the most Nobel prizes, etc. Of the 20 best colleges in the world 13 are located in the US.

I want to live in a country where people fail and succeed.

Lets copy the UK and raise our taxes on the rich.

Http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-bes t-colleges/2008/11/20/worlds-best-colleges-and-universities-top-200.html

http://www.poverty.org.uk/01/index.shtml

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Colleges and Universities don't need to be the best, they need to be equal and accessable, how many of those 12 are both of those? No, that knowledge and information is only for the genetically intelligent or rich.

Anyone anywere can, when presented with the right opportunities, be anything, not just in the US. Even Bill Gates gives all credit to his success to fate, just being fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time. The rich create those right place at the right time scenarios at will. I think a cap on the net worth of an individual, say 30 million would be good for everyone. I can't see how anyone could possibly need more money than that, outside of sheer greed.

I persoanlly lived on the streets in my late teenage years and was on welfare. When presented with the right opportunities, I now earn a comfortble living. I sell Real Estate and work hard and straight out, 12-18 hours a day for 6 months a year, March to June and then September & October. I earn about $120k/yr. I could work more but I don't need to, does that make me lazy, smart, lucky?

I pay a good chunk of income tax about $40k to pay for services that I don't need and I can't even use, like Employment Insurance. I know other people without the same opportunities I was given can't live like I do, so I'm glad to help them out, like I was helped out. I'm thankful for the opportunity just to live in an awesome place like this. You see, it's not the Canadian or EU's Governments that are whiping the people's butt's for them, it's the Canadian & EU's people who realized. If we create a saftey net in which we would help each other out in tough times and give everyone a chance to succeed together, as equals, we would have less violence, less drugs, less crime, more happiness and prosperity for everyone.

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Originally posted by ch3ckm4t3:
AMERIKKKA: **** YEAH

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Guys, please learn how to use the internet. Don't feed the trolls.

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