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Author
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Topic: Across the Board, May 26: Disgusted at Judging
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iakae Banned
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posted May 26, 2000 04:42 PM

Today’s Across the Board is going to be different than most. Usually, I stick to the facts and educated guesses, but I’m so ticked right now that I can barely think straight. I want everyone’s opinions and comments on the matter (especially Coolio’s, if he reads this), as I think that the events that I’m about to give an account of are truly disgusting.Last night, I attended a Type One tournament with the lovely and talented TemptingElf. That’s a rarity, as T1 isn’t played very heavily around here. I was playing a blue/black Underworld Dreams deck, and she was playing a Necro heavy on the discard. Unfortunately, what we were playing has little to do with the story. Anyway, as is often the case, TemptingElf was the only female in the tournament (and that, unfortunately, DOES have a lot to do with the story). She blazed through the opening rounds of Swiss to go 4-0 with no problems, and before she sat down for the fifth round she was feeling confident in her deck and playing. Before I go on, I should tell you that I did not witness firsthand most of what happened. I saw the end only. However, I did speak at length with a friend of mine that was watching and got involved (his name’s Dan, by the way), and he’s not one to embellish. And this is the story that Dan told me. Apparently, TemptingElf’s opponent was a guy that couldn’t have been over eighteen, and his first comment as he sat down was that he’d never seen a chick playing Magic before. Seeing as how the majority of female Magic players don’t like to be called “chick”, he was already off to a bad start. He then made a joke about the loser of the match should have to strip. I’m extremely protective of TemptingElf, so I would have snapped the kid in half if I would have heard that. At that point, Dan figured that it would be a good idea to get a judge in case it went any further. Throughout the match, the kid continued to make such remarks with the judge standing right there. Dan told me that he couldn’t believe that the judge wasn’t doing anything. After one such comment, TemptingElf turned to the official and asked if he would do something about it, and he replied that no rules were being broken. She said something to the effect of “What about unsportsmanlike conduct?”, and he stated that he didn’t see any of that going on. It was at that point that I first learned that something was going on, as my concentration towards my own game was broken when I saw TemptingElf glaring at the judge. Still, there wasn’t anything that I could do, as I still had a game to go before my match was over. Besides, I reasoned, she can take care of herself. I finished up my game and was packing up my stuff in my backpack again when Dan came over to me and said that I should probably come watch TemptingElf’s match. I reached the table just in time to hear the kid say to a friend, “Yeah, that (term for a woman who sells her body, you know what I mean) beat me.” It was at that point that TemptingElf slapped him hard enough to make him stubble backwards. The judge that had been watching, who definitely heard the remark (along with the dozen or so before it), immediately disqualified TemptingElf from the tournament for, get this, unsportsmanlike conduct. In addition, he gave her a match loss, which made the kid 5-0. Now I ask you, is that FAIR? No, wait, that’s not the right question. Is that JUST? I understand that TemptingElf did strike another player, and that’s against the rules, but think about this: a kid was being insulting throughout the entire match, she asked that judge to make the kid refrain from making those comments, and the judge did nothing. It wasn’t until this kid pushed her too far, with no reprimands whatsoever, that she struck out. In my humble opinion, this judge was a complete disgrace to the title. I spoke for quite some time to the head judge afterward, and he stated quite firmly that he would look into it, and if it turned out to be true, that the guy would never judge for him again. So I’d like everyone’s opinion on this. Obviously, the kid was making the comments because TemptingElf is a female, which goes a long way towards explaining why you don’t see a lot of female Magic players in the first place. But for the most part, I just want opinions. Maybe this post will prevent the same thing from happening to someone else, or maybe it won’t accomplish anything. It will, however, go a long way towards creating a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed. Thought for the Day: Story Circle good, Rhystic Circle bad.
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Fooath Member
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posted May 26, 2000 04:52 PM

I had the same thing happen. But their were no females involved...luckily. A guy I knew was verbally assaulted by a guy much larger then him. And far be it from me to watch someone go through this ****. I dragged his @$$ out of store, then brought his cards and told him if he didnt leave I would teach him some respect. Now, being "chivalrous" I could not put up with that, I would not only have taken that "kid" out. I would have tought the judge something too. This is going to far. Around here there are no judges so sometimes things have to be handled more callously. If ANYONE pulled this crap there might be some violence. And far be it from me to avoid a physical confrontation.
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SerraAngel Member
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posted May 26, 2000 04:59 PM

If everyone has ever wondered why a lot of girls don't play Magic, all they need to do is read this article. This unfortunate situation is all too familiar to female magic players. I can't even remember how many times an opponent of mine as walked away muttering something similar to that, or worse, broadcasting his comment to his friends. TemptingElf's opponent's behavior was a far cry from sportsman like behavior and I'm amazed that the judge didn't take action against her opponent especially after she expressed her feelings to him. For all of you who judge, take a little hint from this article if you ever come across a smilier situation. I know I'd be grateful for some intervention. Violence is bad, but if I had been in her position I would have done nothing less. Her punishment makes the entire situation even more unjust. I hope TemptingElf hasn't been turned away from Magic after this unfortunate experience. People like her opponent make me sick and if the male Magic community really wants more female opponents, the behavior described in this article needs to be eliminated.[This message has been edited by SerraAngel (edited 05-26-2000).]
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gh0stface Member
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posted May 26, 2000 05:14 PM

Woa, either this story was exaggerated (which I don't think it is) or the judge must have been completely heartless.That really blows for TemptingElf. It was like the worst possible thing that could have happend. I mean, she got the game loss and the DQ, while the other guy went 5-0? That is completely unfair. __________________ gh0stface's Reflist One injustice starts a thousand riots. One law stops a thousand crimes. One thought opens a thousand eyes. One sun brings a thousand dawns. My family protects all families. Scan of my Best Cards as of 5/15/2000 My FOIL Cradle/Rebel Deck put on EBAY by Trademark
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Glacier14 Member
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posted May 26, 2000 05:26 PM
  
Garbage...absolute garbage! Talking trash in my opinion is foolish in Magic. Hell, its just a card game after all. But any type of verbal attack, especially ones involving any type of racial, sexual, or gender based comments is not only foolish, but childish, silly, and down right insulting (those words are not forceful enough but its the best I can do while keeping it clean)! TemptingElf is a much calmer person than I. I myself would have reached across the table and done much earlier what she did...KNOCK THE SENSE INTO HIS LITTLE HEAD! If the kid dares to make such remarks, he should expect what will come to him. And TemptingElf delivered. In my humble opinion, she gave him exactly what he deserved. And each and everyone of us would have done the same thing if we were pushed as far as she.
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squizz Member
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posted May 26, 2000 07:17 PM

I feel a rant coming on....this sucks!! Like iakae & SerraAngel already pointed out, it's this type of behaviour that keeps women from attending tourneys. The judge should not have allowed comments like this to continue. The fact that nothing was done will encourage this kid to use the same tactics in the future. I had more to say but I suddenly feel quite sick...
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wayne Member
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posted May 26, 2000 07:29 PM

Heh, I would have restricted myself to just drooling at TemptingElf, . Well, if that happened over here, we'd probably just pull the judge and player into some dark alley and...well, you get the idea. For future tourneys, I suggest that TemptingElf use earplugs.
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DarkDamion Member
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posted May 26, 2000 09:57 PM
  
Ok me being the trash-talking man I am, im going to explain(yes EXPLAIN) why these people do these things. One real reason, most of these guys never had a woman, or never will. They simply are scared of a girl. I dont know if you ever seen Futurerama(show that comes on FOX on Sunday nights), that episode where they take a live trip through the Net, and the nerds are sitting there saying that they are like gonna pimp out some girl, anyways when a girl gets in there, they shiver. Thats basically what goes on in a geek's mind when they see a girl playing Magic. So to try to make these girls feel better, you will always be dominant to these geeks, just remember that.  __________________ "Sticks and stones break my bones, but whips and chains excite me." My ref list: http://www.magictraders.com/reflists/DarkDamion.html [This message has been edited by DarkDamion (edited 05-26-2000).]
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Leshrac Founder
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posted May 26, 2000 10:28 PM

I would highly recommend that you write a letter to the DCI and CC it to WotC's legal department complaining of repeated sexual harassment from another player and the failure of a present judge to rectify the situation. Explain the incident in detail and have some witnesses countersign. Demand that both the judge and player receive suspensions or you will take the appropriate legal action. This kind of behavior is completely uncalled for, and is the very definition of unsportsmanlike conduct. Do not let this go unresolved.__________________ Leshrac leshrac@magictraders.com Founder, Owner - Magic Online Trading League (MOTL)
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Orinn Member
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posted May 26, 2000 10:58 PM

That's truly outrageous. That judge should have immediately warned the kid, with a match loss if he said ANYTHING else disrespectful. Leshrac's right, send an account to the DCI, include witnesses, and get both the judge and the player to realize that harassment and verbal abuse are NOT a part of our hobby, nor should they be.__________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted May 26, 2000 11:25 PM

Man no wonder they say tournament magic is not fun anymore. That judge is a worthless piece of crap and the problem is that this happens way to often all over place with stupid judges. Man then Tempting Elf gets DQ'ed and the kid get's to go 5-0 WTF!. At least the little punk got slapped.Vegeta2711 "Why are Judges so ineffective?"
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Imagenyuss Member
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posted May 26, 2000 11:56 PM

I believe the judge was being bias toward the lady player. No woman, especially one that has take her time to play magic as most women don't, should be treated with such sexist cruelty and unreal, no unreal isn't the word ... unjust treatment. This is a disgrace to the slobbish pig that calls himself a judge, and If the head judge finds nothing wrong with what the dregs of humanity has done, then he to should be looked down upon as well. What has happened to equality? This offense is not only infringing on the rules set forth by the creators of magic, this inequality is also in direct conflict of our (The United State's) constitution that has held true for over 200 years. Has something changed all of a sudden after two centuries? I think not. __________________ shut up because Im a genyuss.
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maro1 Member
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posted May 27, 2000 03:38 AM

What happened to Tempting Elf is truly unjust. In any other place in America, Tempting Elf's actions would be justified. In some countries, calling a respectable lady those names would lead to the person getting the crap kicked out him or even broken bones. When I was in High School, me and a couple of friends scared the crap out of some kid for making the same kind of remark, and no one tried to stop us from carrying the kid away (we made him think we were going to beat the crap out of him). And none of us were big in anyway, if anything we were scawny. I felt good about what we did, we didn't hurt anybody and that kid sure never said anything bad again to women we know. And we got him to apoligize to our friend. I hope Tempting Elf meets a better class of players next time. And thank you to all those players that took Elf's side in the matter.
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*Tedman* Member
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posted May 27, 2000 06:56 AM

I must agree with everyone. That was a completely unfair and biased ruling. If the judge was stupid enough to "award" TemptingElf with a match loss and disqualification, then they are too stupid to be a judge. A judge has to look at the facts when making a ruling, not their own (biased) opinion. That judge was out of line, and should be excommunicated.
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Trinistand Banned
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posted May 27, 2000 07:03 AM

You know, it's this kind of thing that just gets me ticked. I may only be 16 but I respect everyone I play against and I expect the same. Obviously, this kid may not have matured over the age of 10 and doesn't respect good gameplay and such. If I was judging that (which I possibly could), I would've warned the kid the first time and then disqualified him afterwards. There is clearly no reason for this trash to be happening. Talking trash in magic and making derrogatory comments is crass and clearly unsportsmanlike. Why TauntingElf got DQ'd and a game loss is lost to me. If this story is true, which no doubt it is true, then the judge obviously isn't competent for the reasons of the "Across the board" article. Whether the player is male or female, it doesn't matter, if they're good then they're good, if they deserve to win then they should win. As with Serra's comments, I completely agree. There are too many players these days with absolutely no respect. As a player who started 6 years ago (yeah yeah), I've seen them all. Look at the big tourtaments like the Regionals and JSS and such. You have to basically physically tape your cards to yourself to prevent them from being pilfered. I'm sickened by the amount of garbage that people like TauntingElf have to deal with.__________________ "One man alone cannot forge a nation from a world of chaos." -Commander Trinistand of the GAB Starlight Blue Team [This message has been edited by Trinistand (edited 05-27-2000).]
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TemptingElf Member
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posted May 27, 2000 07:36 AM

I guess that I should reply to the article that is based around me, now shouldn't I?Tim left some things out of the story, really, and I mean things that involved his actions. There aren't many things that will push him over the edge, but that almost did. Some of you may remember an issue of Across the Board a while back that discussed an incident involving the Dan mentioned above and an opponent that crossed the line of decency with trash talking (which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing in Magic, as long as it's kept somewhat respectful). In that case, Tim had to physically restrain Dan, and the roles were reversed Thursday night. On a quick sidenote, thank you, Dan. Now then, onto the issue at hand. I'm not going to lie to anyone here; I don't regret slapping that immature kid, as his comments crossed the line. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I do regret not turning around and doing the same to the judge. This is the second time this has happened in the last month (a somewhat similar incident occurred at this year's Ohio Valley Regionals), and frankly I'm sick of it. Serra, I'm sure, can identify with this, as unfortunately my experience has taught me that this happens everywhere. Someone above commented that he hoped that I don't quit Magic over this. Why would I quit playing a game that I enjoy because of a few close-minded bigots? I'm a big girl; I can rise above all of this. Usually I am incapable of holding a grudge (although in this case I've already contacted the DCI), and truth be told I'm a gentle person at heart. So by moving past all of this, I can just go on with playing Magic. Besides, I have a talent for the game, and I'm not going to waste that talent. I believe that Tim wrote this article for two reasons. First, as he mentioned, he's very protective of me, so he wanted his outrage heard. Second, he wanted to get this all out in the open in hopes of preventing it from happening to anyone else. In fact, I didn't want him to write about this at all no matter how he felt at first, but after talking through it, I decided that if nothing else the article would make the disgust of women players heard.
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Jigglypuff62166 Banned
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posted May 27, 2000 09:55 AM

Some things that were said weren't exactly bad, just retarted. "The loser has to strip!" What kinda a pansy says, "That". But then again, nah. I probably shouldn't say it. N/E wayz, calling somebody the other word for prostitute is totally uncalled for. My frinds say that to thier good female friends, heh heh, but that's all just a joke. Saying it to somebody you don't know, unless they were just being a complete and utter B-I-T-C- you know what, is unsportsmanlike conduct. I know. I got kicked out for it. It wasn't my fault! She told me that her dog wanted her money back! Now that's gay!__________________ "No soup for you!"
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Ashlie Unregistered
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posted May 27, 2000 04:26 PM

I am in utter agreement to all of what has been posted. (And on a side note, it's good to see some women around here! Haven't played in about 6 mos - or posted for that matter! - but it's always a reassurance to me to see women!)I've never been called anything to my face or even in earshot - I am a BIG girl, 5'7" and about 180 - but I'm sure some snide things have been said about me before. The only thing that really has happened to me was a kid almost knocked me over at '99 regionals because he was playing as we were waiting for the pairings. A friend of his, whom I knew from association (my husband beat him in the finals of a PTQ) said "Apologize to her!" The kid just looked at me like I was an alien and I said, "It takes a big man to apologize to a woman." The kid looked like he was about to ball his eyes out. For the most part - in Dallas at least - I'm given respect because I can play. What they say about me behind my back, I can't help. Anyways, back to the post at hand. You should definitely push the issue with DCI and WotC. It IS sexual harassment, ESPECIALLY since the judge was watching the match and let it slide, even when you asked him to refrain. To all male players, PLEASE watch how you treat women at these tournaments. Not all of us are here because our boyfriend/husband plays Magic. Some of us are actually competitive. And if we beat you, have the decency to go down with a smile, not a comment directed at our gender. Just because we are female doesn't mean we are inferior. __________________ Ashlie "The truth is out there, Mulder. But so are lies." - Scully
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the avatar Member
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posted May 27, 2000 05:09 PM

well, i guess ill get my 2 cents in here. i think what some of these guys do to girls make me sick.it sucks that some people think that magic is a game for only guys. I hate to tell you guys, but a few of those girls(just like TemptingElf), could rip you a new A**hole in magic. thats actually one of the reasons i believe these idiots do this sort of thing. they cant stand losing to someone of the opposite sex. As a matter of fact, at the nemsis prerelease, i was paired with a female opponet, and she beat the living tar out of me(mana screwing does NOT help!) =( Anyway, i think temptingelf did the right thing in this matter. Like Leshrac said, dont let this one go unfixed. just my 2 cents __________________ If it is weak, kill it or ignore it. Anything else would honor it.
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iakae Banned
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posted May 27, 2000 05:41 PM

Hmm, I don't know what's more amazing: the number of outraged replies, or that Ashlie is back on MOTL. If I remember correctly, a lot of people were wondering what happened to her.Anyway, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees how disgusting this all was. If you think that hearing about it is bad, you should have been there to witness it. Some people... I normally close posts down when I put up a newer issue of Across the Board, but in this case I think that I'll leave it open for a while.
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HarbingerOfDeath Member
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posted May 28, 2000 12:17 AM

In my local tourneys, the judges are very strict about unsportsmanlike conduct, which is very good, i personally encounter a lot of unsporting conduct, because i am 13, thats not what so unusual, but that i am very good. I dont really mean to brag (well yes i do sorta), but its important that i say this, to get my point across. currently, i am rated 22nd for composite ratings in Canada (my name is Murray Evans) and i dont know if there is something about me, but people get horribly uupset when they lose to me, unless they know me (i should also let you know, i am rated 3rd in composite rating for the Junior Super Series age division) i have all kinds of stories, here is one: nations 1999, open qualifier, down to top 8 of the single elim event, top 4 get spots in nationals, i am playing green LD, i just run over some sort of a whitish/blueish type deck, so the guy is steaming mad, goes over to his friend, who is trading with my brother, and says pretty much the worst things you can say about someone, so my brother (who is a strong guy) comments to him: so you lost to my brother eh? and the guy turned white, like he had seen a ghost. i went on to finish 18th in nats. last story: playing in a local T2 tourney, i am playing round 4, basicly if i win i make finals, if i dont, i suck, so its game 1, i am playing tangle wire stompy, he playing sexy rector, he monoliths out masticore, and joey joe joe junior shabadu comes along and says: hey, did you know this kid doesnt play uktabi main deck? this comment was fueled by his embarassing 0-3 drop, so i calmly summon the judge, say what happened, the judge asks him to leave the area of our match, he stays there, so i say: judge, he hasnt moved, then he went ballistic, swearing, "you can kiss my ****ing royal ***, and "i wouldnt hit my kids, but if i had a kid like you id hit you", this guy is in his 40's-50's, so the judge kicked him out of the building, and reported it to the DCI as a very serious infraction, which is what i like to see, anyway, i am guessing it was months of built up anger due to my constantly beating him in tourneys. for those of you who are curious, my ratings are (yes, this is pure bragging) composite: 1845 Standard: 1857, limited: 1873 well, some judges are just total morons, fortunately for me, i havent encountered any, here in Edmonton, Alberta, we have the best TC and judges i have encountered. bad judging, like in iake's story, should result revoking of judges status AND a nice DCI ban.
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HarbingerOfDeath Member
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posted May 28, 2000 12:39 AM

now for something more serious than funny stories and random bargging: only in the US could people make such sexist biggoted comments, now me, i dont really feel the effects of trash talking, i can pretty much take it all, in fact the only time i have ever puched somebody has completely nothing to do with magic, to make a short story shorter, some little 10 year old kicked me in the nuts, so i punched him right in the face. my suggestion for temptingelf is when people make comments like that, you get upset, sure, but a good way to calm yourself is to take satisfaction from knowing you are a better person than the bitter hatefilled individual whos only joy in life is enraging poeple and exposing them to their hate. the closest thing i have seen to a good old fashon beating i have seen is when at a PTQ, this 15 or 16 year old kid from semi finals opens up his prize packs next to the runner up, and he opens a foil second chance, and quotes to the 2nd place finisher who is the calmest most laid back, quotes the second chance flavour text, which is "when nothing but 2nd best will do" i mean, the guy just finished 2nd in a 1 slot PTQ, he was soo soo soo mad, you could see how alive his eyes were with the lust for blood, but he restrained himself. the kid quit magic because of how he was constantly being ridiculed for making that increadibly stupid comment, also, the kid had an out of controll hygene problem, which he was the butt of many jokes because of. in my area, i have never heard anyone discriminate against a female magic player. there are at least 5-6 that occasionly play tournaments, and they are all in the better half of edmontons magic community for sure. so a couple tips for temptingelf: move to canada, were really nice here and, dont give people the satisfaction of responding to their discriminatory comment, instead, take the satisfaction out of how your are by far a better person than they are.
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Fooath Member
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posted May 28, 2000 01:05 AM

Discrimination: To show partiality or prejudice!Move to canada, we are nice in canada, only in U.S. could this happen?! You flappy jawed, beaty eyed, hypocritical canadian. Jeez, only you canadians would be so conceited and arrogant. GOD I LOVE IT! GOD BLESS CANADA!!!
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Maximus_Ar Banned
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posted May 28, 2000 01:07 AM

In my opinion, judges are not there only to enforce and clarify rules...they are there to make sure that EVERYONE has a good time. It seems in this case that the judge dropped the ball.
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Deranged Dad Member
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posted May 27, 2000 11:04 PM

I've read all of the comments, and I agree with everyone saying the judge was an idiot, and the player was an idiot. The only comment I would like to make is that, corny as it sounds, violence solves nothing, and she should NOT have touched him.Last night, in fact, I got into an arguement with a co-worker. He took an innocent comment of mine way out of proportion and literally threatened to take me outside and pound the **** out of me. Many times, in fact. I lost my temper and yelled back, which was wrong of me, but it went no further. I'm older now, and contrary to my younger days when I'd fought with customers before, I realize that hitting someone is just wrong. Again, the kid was a @$$, and he should've been given a match loss, minimum, if not tossed from the tournament. But he shouldn't have been touched. If you do so, you are not only breaking the rules, you could--in an extreme interpretation--be considered breaking the law, which could have many unforseen consequences.
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